Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers

It has been 21 days since the outbreak of the latest dispute over date formats.

The top of section WP:YEAR contains the following note:

The mention of WP:YEARS was introduced in 2022 by @Frostly. @FaviFake changed the note, mentioning WP:WTF (and later WP:EGG) as rationale, to the following:

I reverted the change. As I understand it, this note is about the similarly between WP:YEAR and WP:YEARS, and it's a hint in case someone picked the wrong shortcut. The use of the shortcut WP:YEARS instead of the full link is a deliberate choice. It's quite likely that someone will confuse WP:YEAR and WP:YEARS. Much more likely than a possible confusion between WP:YEAR and Wikipedia:WikiProject Years. What do others think? — Chrisahn (talk) 15:19, 8 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

The redirect Wikipedia:NFTA has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2026 June 26 § Wikipedia:NFTA until a consensus is reached. Jay 19:58, 26 June 2026 (UTC)Reply

Four questions regarding this.

1. I have seen many articles about Russia, especially for places, using MDY date format, which is not used in Russia. They should use DMY format which is used in Russia. No one in Russia writes their dates in MDY format. I think that MOS:DATETIES should be expanded to cover non-English-speaking countries, since there might be disagreement of what constitutes an ”English-speaking country”; are former British colonies or protectorates where English is not an offficial language (such as Cyprus, Mauritius, Bangladesh and Malaysia) ”English-speaking countries”?
2. Article Navassa Island uses imperial units first, but it should use metric units first, since it is disputed between US and Haiti, which uses metric system.
3. I have seen articles about individual Western Pacific typhoon seasons using MDY date format, but I wildly remember that they were all using DMY dates before. Were they changed to use MDY dates?
4. Can fractions be used in places of decimals in precentages, such as 31⁄2% in place of 3.5%? --40bus (talk) 12:25, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Normally you would use the date format used by that country. I think the MDY format is used because it was written by someone from the USA. Select edit and infobox and see what it states for date format. I personally think it's better to use to use decimals outside the USA. Avi8tor (talk) 13:37, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

The date format used in Russian is irrelevant for the choice of English-language date format. Such articles are written in English in English-language WP, not in Russian. Doremo (talk) 14:26, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

I think that DMY format might be the format used even in English-language texts in Russia, and this is not like Japan where most English-language texts seem to use MDY and its date format used in Japanese (YMD) is not used in English. So, articles related to a non-English-speaking country should use the format that is used or might be used in English-language texts in that country (which may be the same as in the native language). --40bus (talk) 15:37, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

The way that (some) Russians (or Japanese) may write in English remains irrelevant for the choice of English-language date format. Doremo (talk) 16:01, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Good arguments can be made for many changes, but for an encyclopedia which already has 7,218,115 articles, it's good to think through the process by which the rules might change. First understand what the rules are. The possible issues above are real, but they are not violations of Wikipedia's guidelines. Many of our rules are compromises and changing one thing would mess with other compromises. Search the archives of this page to see (1) how often these have been discussed in the past and (2) how few of those discussions have resulted in changes. Then, I suggest learning to be comfortable with current practice. SchreiberBike | ⌨  22:35, 13 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Exactly, see MOS:DATETIES and MOS:DATERET: Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the date format most commonly used in that country. For all other articles, either DMY or MDY are fine. Once an article has been standardized on one of them or one clearly dominates, this should not be changed without prior discussion – so in practice the first contributor who cares enough decides which one it'll be.

So, for articles tied to Russia or Western Pacific countries where English isn't the national language, both styles are perfectly fine. Gawaon (talk) 02:22, 14 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

As for your last question: 31⁄2% looks odd and confusing. With percentages you should always use a decimal point (if the precision is needed), so write 3.5%. Gawaon (talk) 02:26, 14 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

While I agree 3.5 % looks better than 3 1⁄2 %, I would argue that 33 1⁄3 % is better than 33.3 % if the intended meaning is one third. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 11:44, 14 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Well, it sure is more precise! But if you just mean 1⁄3, why not write 1⁄3? Gawaon (talk) 11:58, 14 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

The question was about how (not whether) to express values as percentages. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 06:44, 20 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

In a moment as close to the event as possible, I think that weather on the infobox of the today's World Cup final should be in Celsius first, because it would be consistent with other finals, despite that it is held in the US. Could this be feasible? FIFA also gives weather in Celsius. --40bus (talk) 15:53, 19 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

I agree, it's an international competition, the only competitor not using Celsius is the USA. Avi8tor (talk) 18:26, 20 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Season and episode for the Walton family series are out of numerical order according to (my TV Guide) listing on several occasions !!!! ☹️ ~2026-40949-42 (talk) 09:54, 22 July 2026 (UTC)Reply

Sounds like something you should raise at the article talk page. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 10:17, 22 July 2026 (UTC)Reply